Curse

Big_Iron · Jun 08, 2006, 06:25 PM // 18:25

I've been playing GW for about a year now and I've had maybe one or two error 7's. And the only reason I'm even saying I may have had one or two is because "never" is so absolute. That's not to say I've never been disconnected. I've had my ISP (Comcast) go down and my PC has locked up from time to time. I see all these complaints about err7's and I just can't see it being an Anet issue. I'm thinking it's localized to wherever you guys are.

Loviatar · Jun 08, 2006, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by felinette

You seem hell bent on protecting Anet's "honor". Well, they can have their honor, but they'll lose customers regardless unless the problem is fixed.

what i am trying to say is lets beat the right horse because beating the wrong one does not get any fix started.

peace?

felinette · Jun 08, 2006, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

what i am trying to say is lets beat the right horse because beating the wrong one does not get any fix started.

Well, Anet/NCSoft might try to lean a little on alter.net if enough players complain to them. Players can really only open a ticket with Anet/NCSoft.

Loviatar · Jun 08, 2006, 07:40 PM // 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by felinette

Well, Anet/NCSoft might try to lean a little on alter.net if enough players complain to them. Players can really only open a ticket with Anet/NCSoft.

SBC/ATT/ etc are little guys compared to Alternet and Anet/NCSoft is small potatoes to ATT/SBC/ETC
(they are small change to Alternet)

they simply dont have the clout to swing the dog so to speak.

give me a contact to complain to at Alternet and i will help lead the charge even though i am not affected by this.

Quote:

AlterNet, aka UUNet is part of Verizon. We're not talking about a lowly ISP that you get your connection from, but one of the big boys, a Tier One carrier, the top of the ISP food chain. According to wikipedia, they are one of only 9 IPv4 (Tier one) ISPs in the world. If you read through the Tier one article, and each ISP, you'll realize that all of them (except Nippon) are in some way US companies (although not in all ways; but definitely in terms of where some of their physical network is). Almost every other ISP depends on them directly or indirectly for something...

In case some of you don't remember, we had a couple hours back in late October of last year where two of the tier ones (Verio and Level 3) couldn't communicate with each other. Not a particularly fun night, and it was only a few hours.

felinette · Jun 08, 2006, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

give me a contact to complain to at Alternet and i will help lead the charge even though i am not affected by this.

You're not their customer so they won't give a crap. If they won't listen to the entity they or one of their resellers actually have an account with, why would they listen to you? If NCSoft/Anet doesn't have the clout on its own, then what needs to happen is for NCSoft/Anet to join with other affected alter.net (and reseller) customers to try to get alter.net to address the issue. The only recourse the player has is to go through Anet/NCSoft. Whoever said to keep opening support tickets with them has it right (Phantoma, I believe).

What's frustrating for people is that nobody will say if the issue will ever be fixed. Perhaps everyone should take the "It's not us, it's alter.net so we can't do anything" answer to mean "forget about GW--go play something else." If the performance is indeed in line with whatever service contract alter.net has with NCSoft/Anet, then it sounds like nothing will ever be done.

Sofia Sofia Sofia · Jun 09, 2006, 03:58 AM // 03:58

It's not us; it's Anet.

Major reasons why:

1.
When I error 007, usually someone else on my guild does too, at the exact same time. In Halls against WM and iA, expecting a great game, someone on the WM error007 out and then seconds later the same happens to me.

2.
I run other ISP services parallel to GW. This is not a new thing for mel; I have a fast connection and I have always been able to handle it. Now, when I error 007, there is ABSOULTELY no problem with all the other programs. AIM, MIRC, BT, Ventrillo, all are working perfectally. There is not even a bit of instability; the speed on my rather fast DL are entirely unaffected. If the problem is indeed on my end, these programs would have either DCed or at least hiccuped with lag.

I'll be the first to admit that I am not THAT techno-saavy, but even I know enough logic to know that this is on Anet's end.

jimmyhats · Jun 09, 2006, 08:48 AM // 08:48

for about the past 3 days now, i have been error 7ing at least once an hour, sometimes more... and it totally sucks, i literally cannot get anything done. and like many of the rest of you, when these disconnects happen, my other services such as vent/aim/mirc/downloads do not even skip a beat...

Engel the Fallen · Jun 09, 2006, 11:23 AM // 11:23

Anyone into GvG will notice that these drops often come in pairs. One team will lose one, then the other team will drop one. I have played games recently where 5 people total dropped.

The final playoffs will be interesting to watch with all these problems as it will not be who has the best build, but who can play the best after one or two people randomly drop off their teams...

Sofia Sofia Sofia · Jun 10, 2006, 04:22 AM // 04:22

Hey look on the bright side, once people start dropping in tournies, the folks at Anet HAVE to do something.

This scheisse is total bull. I just went through 2.5 hours on the Warren, and error 007 FTL. Of course there was a guildie on the West Coast (I'm East) who was getting that same pre-error 007 state evertime that I do.

It's not use, it's Anet. It's really irresponsible for them to claim otherwise.

remmeh · Jun 10, 2006, 05:38 AM // 05:38

it's NOT anet. it's alternet.

fezpenguino · Jun 10, 2006, 12:58 PM // 12:58

This is rediculous though. A member of my guild said they find it impossible to play at the moment, and so they're going to just give it a break for a few weeks.
I'm in Europe, and I've not actually been having Err 007 myself, but I have been unable to connect to towns and outposts at random times, and it's rare that I go out with a group of 8 and at least one person doesn't connect. This is a major problem, and ANet are losing players from all sides of the Globe.
It really needs to fix, and I agree; pointing fingers does not get it solved. Although once someone admits blame perhaps they will decide to DO something about this. It's not just a problem that occurs now and then, this problem is a continuous thing happening to everyone randomly throughout the game.

It's not a local problem to all these individuals, there is a problem elsewhere, and I believe it lies with Alternet, so I hope they take the responsibility and decide to work on it.

I wasn't happy with ANet's last update (Fri 8th June), where they decided to update things that didn't fix major issues with the game, such as these connection problems (the least they could do is make an announcement so people know what's going on, instead of speculate) and also with the Alliance Battles and Fort and Jade Quarry, with people being unfair.

They need to step up and do some action to let the players know what's going on and what they plan to do with all of this stuff pee'ing a lot of people off.

kryshnysh · Jun 10, 2006, 02:48 PM // 14:48

Unfortunately, Loviatar's analysis is more or less correct. ANet is a comparable small fry to Alter.Net. SBC/AT&T, and others could probably push Alter.Net (part of Verizon) to fix up, if they pushed hard enough, assuming doing so wouldn't push Alter.Net out of business. Also note that it might not even be Alter.Net responsible that day (although my bet is Alter.Net is the biggest cause of the Tier 1 ISPs, the initial support e-mail does mention Savvis as well).

Most responses on guru seem to either be
1) Its ANet's fault
2) It isn't ANet's fault
3) Some cases may be ANet's fault, but not all

We're missing 4) It might be ANet's fault.

Our "official" responses from ANet basically include a copy/pasted tech support e-mail which could technically be forged. Do I think it is? No. Why? Because it matches quite well what others who have pingplotted and watch internet latency matters have seen.

Why do we not have more official word from ANet? First off, this is a highly technical matter. Secondly, peering agreements (that is what ANet/NCSoft and Alter.Net have) are generally under rather restrictive NDAs, so how much ANet could tell us is questionable. For all we know the NDA could be so restrictive, PR couldn't know, altough I'm in no position to know if its that restrictive.

Quote:

But when it's there ISP droping, they CAN do things about just as I can do things about my ISP. Change ISPs for one. Or maybe pay for a better connection. At the very least I'd be complaining until I was blue in the mouth.

My theory on the problem is that they took there East Coast servers offline, and routed the trafic to the west coast servers, giving everyone on the east coast of US and Canada major lag and connection problems.

As far as ANet's ISP goes. Unlike you or I, NCSoft/ANet uses a MUCH larger connection, and thus options are extremely limited. They might be able to pay for a better connection, but either the cost is "prohibitively" (their definition) expensive, or it doesn't exist. My money is on "doesn't exist" but thats purely a speculative bet from my minimal involvement in high-end internet traffic. Especially given that EQ, UO, GW, and Lineage II are all supposedly having similar problems. If they had the money, I would really appreciate them doing something about it. It rarely effects me directly at the moment, but it often impacts those I play with in their own actions.

If you pingplot, you can see that the East Coast servers are still online (or have some really odd direct router connection from East Coast Alter.Net to west coast playNC.com - mind you this would be nearly record-breaking level hardware).

Quote:

While i have had disconnects on my end due to my DSL dropping sync, SINCE the last update i heve started getting these error 007 drops also, usually bout 1 per 45min-1hr......the difference being when my connection drops on my end due to the modem the game action stops, i cant move then after a minute or so i get an 007. SINCE the update these NEW 007's are instantaneous dropouts to the login in screen, no warning of any kind......at least with my modem drops i know when its happening.

IT's the update.

It could be the update. It could also be that when you update, you move to new servers. New servers go through a high latency link, resulting in lots of err7s. If it were purely the update, everyone should have that problem, I haven't noticed any such problem.

Quote:

It's not us; it's Anet.

Major reasons why:

1.
When I error 007, usually someone else on my guild does too, at the exact same time. In Halls against WM and iA, expecting a great game, someone on the WM error007 out and then seconds later the same happens to me.

2.
I run other ISP services parallel to GW. This is not a new thing for mel; I have a fast connection and I have always been able to handle it. Now, when I error 007, there is ABSOULTELY no problem with all the other programs. AIM, MIRC, BT, Ventrillo, all are working perfectally. There is not even a bit of instability; the speed on my rather fast DL are entirely unaffected. If the problem is indeed on my end, these programs would have either DCed or at least hiccuped with lag.

I'll be the first to admit that I am not THAT techno-saavy, but even I know enough logic to know that this is on Anet's end.

1. When you HA, GvG, etc., you are all connected to the same server. If the router before that server has latency issues, even some rather low percentage high latency blips will lead to multiple d/cs in a match. Given how load and latency are interrelated, I would expect d/cs at the same time.

2. None of those other programs require the same latency and/or run through the same router elsewhere.

None of this is proof. It is weak evidence, unfortunately the evidence on the other side outweighs it, by virtue of being more directly related to the problem at hand (what we might call strong evidence).

Quote:

"It wasn't me, it's YOUR FAULT"

The reason why Tech Support has to ask you about client side is two-fold. 1) Many if not most problems do occur at the client side. 2) Its a lot easier to trouble-shoot client side problems. I have yet to see them blaming someone, just as being practical. Of course I could very well be missing things, this isn't my primary area of interest, I'm not good with computer problems for gamers, just minimally knowledgeable about the internet. Most of the complaints we see here are constant err7s, or err7s occuring to groups, not so much the sporadic ones we all get. My guess is those occur at least as often, just they are rather spread out. Given how tech support works in most other instances, that would be the better place to start.

A bit of a highlight on Guild Wars latency as a subproblem of internet structure:

The problem of latency is known to occur in Streaming Video and games and is a problem all ISPs are presently coping with. The following article is a bit more encompassing than just Guild Wars, but shows that the problem is in some ways an internet structure problem: Comparably Neutral Wikipedia Link on Network Neutrality. Its basically impossible to get a link on latency effecting games due to internet structure without running into the politics of Network Neutrality. Guildwarsguru is NOT the place to discuss politics, even if it might effect our playing experience. Unless a Mod gives express permission, please don't discuss politics from this, just take it as more information to an understanding of how complicated this issue might be for Alter.Net, et al.

Falrow · Jun 12, 2006, 12:08 AM // 00:08

Well in the end it comes down to doing nothing and just waiting for the big guys to beat on each other?

Great, I have confidence in the big guys looking out for the interests of the minority groups.

The final word on all these problems? Wait.

Nickelocene · Jun 12, 2006, 12:39 PM // 12:39

sent my Error 7 ticket to ANet tech support and got a reply really quickly (in less than 30 minutes), which actually is NOT a good thing.
From their reply, I know they didn't even bother to read my email. Whoever the guy is, he just copied and pasted the question list from their FAQ's of Error 7, which I read and already answerred them in my original email, to the reply email and ask me again.
I'm very disappointed in them. I/m seriously considerring if I should continue with GW. I don't think I will jump on Ch3 like what I did with Ch2. Well, I guess they don't care.

Loviatar · Jun 12, 2006, 03:50 PM // 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nickelocene

sent my Error 7 ticket to ANet tech support and got a reply really quickly (in less than 30 minutes), which actually is NOT a good thing.
From their reply, I know they didn't even bother to read my email. Whoever the guy is, he just copied and pasted the question list from their FAQ's of Error 7, which I read and already answerred them in my original email, to the reply email and ask me again.
.

sigh

since you have missed every post on this from all sources i will repeat it just for you.

you sent in an original ticket with the answers on it.

NOTICE THAT THE FIRST RESPONSE IS ALWAYS FILTERED BY THE AUTO RESPONSE SYSTEM.

to keep the ticket active and not auto closed as solved (you didnt say this didnt help)

you have to respond in less than 24 hours telling them

*THIS DID NOT HELP*

after which you get a helpful person who will work with you.

start a new ticket and follow instructions

Nickelocene · Jun 12, 2006, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

sigh

since you have missed every post on this from all sources i will repeat it just for you.

you sent in an original ticket with the answers on it.

NOTICE THAT THE FIRST RESPONSE IS ALWAYS FILTERED BY THE AUTO RESPONSE SYSTEM.

to keep the ticket active and not auto closed as solved (you didnt say this didnt help)

you have to respond in less than 24 hours telling them

*THIS DID NOT HELP*

after which you get a helpful person who will work with you.

start a new ticket and follow instructions

Thanks for letting me know. My ticket is still open and I'm communicating with a real support, even though his reply is pretty copy-and-paste. Just wanted to share my experience with everyone here.

kryshnysh · Jun 13, 2006, 04:19 AM // 04:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falrow

Well in the end it comes down to doing nothing and just waiting for the big guys to beat on each other?

Great, I have confidence in the big guys looking out for the interests of the minority groups.

The final word on all these problems? Wait.

Unfortunately the options do seem to be limited. I count three at the moment.

Complaining to and about ANet may work, just make sure the complaints are valid and correct. Complaining about their servers does no good if its not a server problem. On the other hand, one thing that I think is valid to complain/campaign for is reconnects (there are probably others, I'm just using one example). I understand that ANet is working on that, but voicing your opinion that you want them, etc. seems reasonable to me.

Complaining to your ISP may work for them to pressure anyone higher up. In my case, complaining goes next up to Sprint, doesn't really do much as the Sprint backbone I'm on is plenty stable. And complaining through too many levels doesn't seem to me to be worth it... then again my problems are rather limited for the time being.

Working with ANet Support may fix your particular issue, as has been stated many times, its a long path with them, getting through the automated and early replies which may not fix your situation but are there for those they do fix. Not everyone's issue is due to Alter.Net, et al. If yours is, then you really are in a hard situation.

pelmensilverwolf · Jun 13, 2006, 05:31 AM // 05:31

Something that may help (I was having big trouble with 007 errors, rubberbanding, freeze stalls, and only in guild wars to boot... just before factions came out) at least some people... and please don't shoot me if it doesn't work...

Try reinstalling the firmware in your router if you're using one..

Yeah it sounds kinda strange... I had the latest firmware in my USR8054 and was getting the errors I mentioned above on a constant basis. I finally sat down to work through the problem and said what the heck and redownloaded and reinstalled the latest firmware updates... and poof.. I get lag maybe once every few days now, and with the exception of a very strange positioning bug today, I haven't had connection issues since that update

Just a thought that may help a few people..

I'm going to presume that I connect through alternet as well on my way to guildwars (don't see how I couldn't), and I haven't had anywhere near the trouble that people are mentioning since I fixed my router....

kryshnysh · Jun 13, 2006, 09:36 PM // 21:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelmensilverwolf

Just a thought that may help a few people..

I'm going to presume that I connect through alternet as well on my way to guildwars (don't see how I couldn't), and I haven't had anywhere near the trouble that people are mentioning since I fixed my router....

Good advice. Many things can cause lag and other problems. Don't blame it immediately on Alter.Net until you've looked into other things.

You may connect through Alter.Net, you may not.

To explain a bit on connections, and possibilities...

There are multiple locations of ANet servers. Not all of them are necessarily behind Alter.Net.

This next part is nearly pure speculation:
The specific part of playNC.com you connect to may be large enough that there is not just one entry point to playNC.com, but multiple. As such, if your quickest route is generally not through a/the bad router, you may not see any lag or other problems resulting from Alter.Net.

I know I used to feel a lot from Alter.Net, and now feel very little. My guess is that they moved the preferences of servers to connect to such that I was more likely to get routed around the bad router(s). Or maybe my ISP gets along better with Alter.Net and thus they're more willing to attempt to give me a dedicated stream than someone from a less favored ISP (I'm not sure if thats legal, or done).

I have no idea on much of this, really getting to the point well beyond my knowledge, but it shows how many possibilities are out there (probably many I have missed too).

Loviatar · Jun 13, 2006, 10:38 PM // 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nickelocene

Thanks for letting me know. My ticket is still open and I'm communicating with a real support, even though his reply is pretty copy-and-paste. Just wanted to share my experience with everyone here.

there are so many that have missed it i thought that it couldnt hurt might help.

good luck